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Evil Penevil

Bottom Rail On Top 'dis Time, Massa! The Coyote Dancer's Side Of The Story

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I probably won't leave Soi Sex on my next Pattaya visit.

In the 90s it was 500b to the gal & 300 to the bar.

Then it moved up to 1k all in, can't recall when that was, but I'm pretty sure I still managed that on my last trip.

Yeah,went up to 700 + 300.

Now 1000 + 300 seems to be the standard price.

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I'm really sad, Evil deleted his last post... At this time I would agree with him....yes, the punters also not the saints...

A hungarian girlfriend visited me lately and her very first impression was about the city: Nowhere else she witnessed so many farang weirdos in so high concentration... Walking through Soi Buakhao on the very first day, she was simple scared....Yes... the heavily tattoed guys in the wife beaters, the guys sitting already at noon in a beer bar and stare the nothing over a beer...with stoned faces... yes, the many heavily overweighted guys swimming in their sweats... etc...

And my experiences in the GOGO bars... the many haughty guys thinking, they will buy the girls by kilo and zero personal efforts, the many guys only fingerpointing on a girl and behave just like to buy a cow...The guys talking with their mates whilst the girl sits with them and their maximum efforts to build a personal contact is to grope them... without a word or any attention on them...use them as as a pet... .And the many younger guys thinking, they will save the girls from the old perverts and wonder if they must to pay after the sex... I can fully understand the girl's fears...

Just a story I heard... a generous offer... the guy's hobby is to tier the girl... and a ping pong ball in her mouth... in a ST room... he f**ked her, like an animal... a smile and a good bye.. without any payments... an hour later the receptionist found her tiered in the room...

But the other side is still valid.. the spoiled girls milking down the gullible punters.. ( no wonder, the 40+ guys sit alone and desperate... unless, they are known in the bar... ) For the regulars an easy job is a Mission impossible for the new faces...they will be cheated ( because he is too shy to ask the conditions before the fifth ladydrink ... and too happy, at least a girl give him some attention... ) Me or Evil may share some success stories... But what I see is in the bars... mostly frustrated lonely 40 + guys waiting for the wonder...The groups has a better treat, as they are more in party mood together.... so spending more easily...how many groups I witnessed paying the ladydrinks on the trays and leave the bar with bitter faces...and no one barfined girls... I don't know the real reasons... I just share what I saw...

Many years ago the slogan was: No violent crime in Pattaya, because the males has no testosteron in their blood... Not true anymore... I see much more frustrated guys in the bars, than sanuk stories...and also frustrated girls knocked back by the farangs because of the silly demands....In one bar I witnessed a few days ago a girl almost cried because of her third farang customer declined her highly overpriced demand.... but we knows... the face thing is more important for the girls, than the real life...this is why the supply / demand thing never will work in Pattaya... whilst they earn the salary ... they can afford the face thing....

Edited by Gabor

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Good post Evil....and a good thread.

Nothing to add except I had a wander down soi six about 3 weeks back,same same as 10 years ago,I thought the girls' attitudes were great.......maybe I got them on a good day.

Same barfine price and same ST price.

Still the best soi in Pattaya.

Agreed.

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Seen 1000b a day mentioned a few times but can't say if that is the truth or people speculating.

Also the get their salary cut for not reaching LD quota's.Was told that by a girl personally in WS.

According to My Source Coyote, she gets 1,000 baht/day, with a drink quota of 45 drinks for the 10-day period. She never has any problem making her quota, but the girls who fall short are docked 150 baht (the cost of a LD) for each drink under 45. In a bar like Sensations, with plenty of Asian customers, it's not often the girls don't get 45 drinks. MSC feels that any girl who struggles to make the drink quota shouldn't be a coyote, but should work on a straight salary.

But she also acknowledges that the 10-day coyote model can work out well for the girls that can't clear the quota IF they get one or more BFs per night. It breaks down like this: each S/T session gives the girl 2,000 baht in her pocket (and it isn't unusual for Asian guys to tip 500 or even 1,000 extra). At the end of the 10-day period, the bar is due 6,750 baht for the 45 LDs or else 6,750 baht will be deducted from the 10,000 baht salary. The income from three S/T sessions would make up for that. However, MSC says it is extremely unlikely a girl would get zero lady drinks and only three BF's in 10 days. If the girl hasn't after 2 or 3 days gotten any drinks or hasn't BF'd, the mamasan and the agency will probably suggest she pursue other opportunities.

Evil

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According to My Source Coyote, she gets 1,000 baht/day, with a drink quota of 45 drinks for the 10-day period. She never has any problem making her quota, but the girls who fall short are docked 150 baht (the cost of a LD) for each drink under 45. In a bar like Sensations, with plenty of Asian customers, it's not often the girls don't get 45 drinks. MSC feels that any girl who struggles to make the drink quota shouldn't be a coyote, but should work on a straight salary.

But she also acknowledges that the 10-day coyote model can work out well for the girls that can't clear the quota IF they get one or more BFs per night. It breaks down like this: each S/T session gives the girl 2,000 baht in her pocket (and it isn't unusual for Asian guys to tip 500 or even 1,000 extra). At the end of the 10-day period, the bar is due 6,750 baht for the 45 LDs or else 6,750 baht will be deducted from the 10,000 baht salary. The income from three S/T sessions would make up for that. However, MSC says it is extremely unlikely a girl would get zero lady drinks and only three BF's in 10 days. If the girl hasn't after 2 or 3 days gotten any drinks or hasn't BF'd, the mamasan and the agency will probably suggest she pursue other opportunities.

Evil

According to my sources the drink quotas are 40-50 drinks in 10-day period.

Now when times are good, girls have little trouble meeting their quotas. However when times are slow, girls can't create customers out of thin air and has to compete with 100 more girls for drinks. This keeps wage costs down when times are slow for the gogo while keeping a lot of girls in their books. It's not rare that a girl who was making a killing during high season to end up with only 10 drinks or so and only a couple of barfines at the end of her 10 day stint during low season.

Gogos like Sensations operate on a survival of the fittest policy, that's why you get to see plenty of nice girls leaving at the end of the 10 day period. Plenty of girls available to replace them though!

Edited by Andrew19

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I want to come back to the point that "Coyote dancers don't go 'long-time' with customers, i.e., they won't stay overnight." It's the myth that closest to the truth. There's no doubt that long-time is harder to arrange nowadays than it was five or ten years ago. That's pretty much across the board. Fewer and fewer girls from all categories of bars are interested in anything but short-time. It's mainly down to increased prosperity on the part of the girls. They can afford to say "no" to long-time.

We have to be realistic. Not many girls in their late teens or early twenties want to spend the night with a guy who's double or triple their age and often three or four times their weight. In the past, they did so out of economic necessity. Today, they have more options, which include refusing to stay overnight with customers.

That said, there are still thousands of girls in Pattaya who are happy to do L/T. Even coyotes won't hesitate to go L/T with the right customer. More about that later. But before I go too heavily into background and context, I want to give My Source Coyote's version of why she is reluctant to go L/T.

Her main reason is that she has become accustomed to staying up until 6.00 a.m. or 8.00 a.m, then sleeping until mid-afternoon. If a customer bar fines her at 11.00 p.m. and they finish with Round One by 1.00 a.m., she's faced with the prospect of remaining awake in bed for many hours until Round Two while the customer snores contentedly. That's boring as all hell for her and she quite simply won't do it.

Another reason is that experience has taught her far more problems with payment are likely to arise after a L/T session than S/T. If a customer gets hinky about handing over the agreed fee in S/T hotel on WS at 2.00 a.m., there are plenty of possibilities for her to summon help. But at 8.00 a.m. or 10.00 a.m. in a hotel or condo far from WS, her chances are much diminished. The same is true if the customer suddenly gets violent with her. She only has to scream or yell in a S/T hotel to summon the cavalry, but her screams would go unheeded in many guesthouses and hotels and virtually all condos.

Yet another factor is the undesireability of many mongers as bed mates. They snore at the volume of dinosaur in heat; fart; burp; and some even piss the bed. Or they may stay in rooms which are uncomfortable by a bar girl's standard. I've heard from many girls that, "him room badder than my."

Finally, the girls of today have other things they want to do in the wee hours rather than lying awake beside a farang. After the go go shuts down, the girls often eat together, visit a disco or karaoke or just gather to gossip in o ne of the girls' rooms. These are far more appealing options for the girls than going L/T with a random farang.

That's how MSC explained the demise of L/T to me. Nothing sinister about it; it's merely a reflection of the Pattaya of 2015. A lot of the guys who complain about recent developments are consciously or unconsciously bemoaning the fact that Thailand is no longer a wretchedly poor country. Those guys confuse the desperation born out of hunger and hopelessness with "good attitude." In the past, a lot of Thai girls involved in P4P owned little more than the clothes on their backs. When a girl had no money, no food and no place to live, it was a matter of survival to find a man who could at least give her food and shelter and in the best case, a little money.

Back in the 1980s, there was no distinction between L/T and S/T - the girl always stayed with customers overnight and often didn't want to leave, simply because she had nowhere to go. She also hoped against hope that one day a customer would marry her and give her a decent life. That was the only realistic opportunity for many girls to escape poverty, so they poured on the GFE with each and every customer. They extended the kind of treatment usually reserved for husbands to every farang who crossed their paths.

Those days have gone forever. In time, a lot of girls woke up to the fact that the chances of finding a farang to marry them were small. As the commercial sex scene expanded in Thailand, the girls learned to put out for cash, not the promise of a better life.

Santa Penevil

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I'm updating this thread with a conversation I had with a very popular dancer in a Walking Street go go bar.  It's not the same girl that I called My Source Coyote in earlier posts. MSC has retired and moved from Pattaya.

I'll call this coyote dancer New Girl.  I know her quite well as she is a friend of MSC from their days as agency dancers at WhatsUp, Sapphire and Sensations.  NG isn't as talkative as MSC and wasn't as eager to discuss P4P from her perspective.  One night, however, she, uh, opened up about why she sometimes knocks back farang.

Several of the reasons she gave were the same ones mentioned by MSC: bad reputation among the girls; drunkeness; poor hygiene (body odor, stinky clothes and bad breathe); visible sores and boils; creepy impression (Hannibal Lector or Ted Bundy wannabes); any hint of violence; rude attitude and attempts to humiliate her, etc. 

 Any of the above get a potential customer an immediate "red card" from NG and almost all other dancers. Of course, if she suspects a customer isn't able to pay for her services, she'll be away from him faster than spit through a trumpet.

I told her those are very understandable reasons, but some guys who aren't smelly, rude, violent or Cheap Charlies complain about being knocked back. I asked why a potential customer who's clean, sober and willing to pay a reasonable amount would be rejected.  Does she refuse guys she deems too old, ugly or fat?

Basically, she said no, she doesn't. However, she does reject a fair number of potential customers who would otherwise be acceptable because they want services she doesn't provide.  Quite a few want to take explicit pics or video of her, everything from f*cking and blow jobs through spread pussy and dildo shots to topless or underwear photos.  She doesn't allow sexual pics of any sort, hard or soft, and won't even pose for fully clothed pics in a hotel room. 

For some punters, pics are "make or break," so those punters get tossed on the knock-back pile.  Same-same with guys who insist on anal, uncovered sex, swallowing or kinky stuff like pissing or spanking.  No, no. No, no.

She said she would have been willing to give this category of rejected punters what she considers a "normal" short-time session in a nearby hotel, but that's not what they wanted. To her, a normal session is foreplay, uncovered BJ and covered intercourse. She is willing to go overnight with some customers, but only if she's had a S/T session with them first.

When I pressed her a bit, she acknowledged there are a few girls who knock back customers on grounds of age, body size, appearance, etc.  And yes, some customers do indeed pay a hefty "ugly tax." But that, said NG, mainly concerns girls looking for a farang  boyfriend on a long-term basis.  They only go with farang who they think are likely boyfriend candidates.

Based on what NG, MSC and other coyote dancers have told me,  the best chance of a session with them is to accept short-term in a short-term hotel.  Once they are sure you won't pass out drunk, try to strangle them or cheat them out of their fees, other options may open.

That's not what a lot of punters want to hear, but it's the reality all of us face.  A lot of girls don't want to give customers a porn-star experience, at least not in the initial session.  Plenty still will, but for the customer, it's often a choice between physical beauty and service.  It depends on which is most important for the punter.

Bottom rail on top 'dis time, massa!

Evil

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Glad you posted this update as otherwise I would have missed the entire thread. Gives a good insight to the P2P scene both in times past and now.

Also some good posts here from guys missing from the forum.

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Have to say that as much as I appreciate the update from Evil the information contained within it appears just to be common sense and expected for me when a girl has choice, something she didn't always have in the past.

Appreciate the insight, thanks

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Interesting although anybody (like most of us) having a bit experience with the p4p scene know most of this already I would think.

 

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